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steph-epidermidis
Started by graham woods
Posted: January 24, 2009 at 20:28
also referred to as nosocomial infection - classified as a strict hospital infection. I know this isnt MRSA but dont know where else to look. Got this from having bone marrow samples taken in UK hospital end December 08 - has anyone else suffered from this following bone marrow extraction. If so how did you get rid of it? How long did it take, etc. etc. Any info gladly appreciated. Thanks for your time.
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Re: steph-epidermidis
Reply #1 by linda mccafferty
Posted: January 25, 2009
Graham , do you mean Staph-Epidermidis (Staphylococcus Epidermidis )
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Reply #2 by graham woods
Posted: January 25, 2009 at 20:59
Sorry yes you are right.Do you have any info on it
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Re: steph-epidermidis
Reply #3 by linda mccafferty
Posted: January 25, 2009 at 23:16
Graham ........ it usaually affects people whose immune system is compromised or who have indwelling catheters , it is a part of normal skin flora & is often attached to the upper layer of skin . when the skin is injured ( wounds , burns ,intravenous drug addicts etc ) Staphylococcus Epidermidis may enter into deeper layers of the skin or even the blood & cause infection . many strains produce a biofilm that allows them to adhere to the surfaces of medical prostheses .
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Reply #4 by graham woods
Posted: January 27, 2009 at 11:51
thanks for the info Linda - do you know anything about when the infection gets in the bones and how long it takes to get clear? Do you know how common it is to get this infection following bone marrow extraction? Can it keep flaring up?
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Reply #5 by linda mccafferty
Posted: January 28, 2009
Graham , do you have Osteomyelitis ?
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Reply #6 by graham woods
Posted: January 28, 2009 at 20:43
Dear linda,yes i have
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Reply #7 by linda mccafferty
Posted: January 28, 2009 at 22:50
Dear Graham , so sorry to hear this....... your really having a rough time Graham . where you on antibiotics in Dec 08 for this ? antibiotic therapy is usually a prolonged period for osteomyelitis how long did they have you on antibiotics ? have they said if it is acute or chronic ? may i ask Graham why samples of your bone marrow were taken ? what is the consultant/medical staff saying regarding the staph-epidermidis ? or what care are you being given just now ? let me know a little bit more of how your treatment is going Graham if i can help in anyway i will, or even come on for a wee gab if your feeling down. im always here looking in..... my best wishes .
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Re: steph-epidermidis
Reply #8 by graham woods
Posted: January 30, 2009 at 19:43
Dear Linda, originally taken into hospital after bad reaction to antibiotics amoxycillin, platelets crashed to count of 3, given large doses steriods and intravenous steriods plus Vigam as consultant thought was ITP, this did nothing, then tested for various cancers hence bone marrow samples taken, within 24 hrs of having bone marrow test was in backpain and given antibiotics for one week and also test for type of bacteria was in back. This eased it down a little bit but got worse and worse - platelets righted themselves later on in2008 but had CAT scan and 2 MRIscans and a bone scan - put on antibiotics again, 16 a day, for 5 weeks mid 2008, some of the things left behind after steriods and other conditions I have will only operate as last resort and 13 months on it still flares up - consultant said if it settles it wont flare up but has on several occasions and they are considering going in with another load of antibiotics, also if have an op with being alergic to certain antibiotics - cant get straight answer of how long or whether it will clear altogether. Cant remember if told acute or chronic osteomyelitis. At the moment my knee has flared up and want to replace knee joint - no trouble with before but since coming off the steriods have ended up with type 2 diabetis, knee problem, excess weight. Attitude of staff seems to be wait and see, take blood samples to see if infection completely gone - was so bad I couldnt dress myself and couldnt walk properly, even now 13 months on cant lift properly, walk any distance or use a bath. Sent to physiotherapist to see if could get some movement but they were concerned because of the residual infection. Had seen some medication in America where can inject the site - do you know anything about this? I never would have believed from being a reasonably fit man in the building trade how little I can now do. Although things have improved but not with any speed. Hope this gives you an idea. Anything you know - sounds like you are in the trade anyway! Thanks Linda for taking an interest, it is much appreciated. One thing that has helped me - I had accupuncture and the pain relief has been really noticeable in back and knee. A lot more I could say but will keep it at that for now. Man y thanks.
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Reply #9 by linda mccafferty
Posted: January 30, 2009 at 21:47
Dear Graham , im took aback by reading this Graham , may i ask what infection did you have when you were given antibiotics at first to take a reaction ? jings Graham you'v went through the mill havent you . im really interested on reading that you,v now been dx with type 2 diabetes, a hell of a lot of people comes on here reporting diabetes after being infected with a HAI (hospital accquired infection )in my opinion there is a connection...... i really believe that. my mother took type 2 diabetes also after being infected with mrsa .well Graham as for the question about medication/treatment in America , i will put a post up on the USA/Canada site asking for them to come on this site to your thread with some information regarding this they are very knowledgeable & i know they will help you..... the only thing is Graham our healthcare is very diffrent to the USA as you know , but at least you will get good information which may help in the long run . you know Graham you made me laugh soooooo much when you quoted " sounds like you are in the trade anyway " Ha/Ha ........ Nooooooooo im not Graham, im just joe public just like yourself , i just try & help people to get information & support & if i dont know a certain question ..... i always know someone who does . whereabout in the UK are you Graham ? i will try & find out more for you Graham , but im sure you will get some posts from our USA/Canada friends shortly .
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Reply #10 by graham woods
Posted: January 30, 2009 at 22:24
Dear Linda, thank you for replying so quickly. I'd originally finished work early for Christmas and just had a heavy cold that seemed to be going on my chest so went to the doctors when I should really have gone to the pub! Outcome of having a low plate count was being like a haemophiliac and my own bodies defences were attacking the platelets which clot the blood. Steroids were given to knock my immune system, I was also given straight platelets which my body destroyed within six hours! I live at a little place - Thornton Cleveleys near Blackpool Lancashire. I run my own business, used to do decorative effect work sometimes for churches or parts of displays and also run of the mill decorating - unfortunately thats gone by the wayside! Am still under three specialists, I wasnt allowed the flu jab this year because of the reaction I might have to it so - as you can guess - I got flu with ear infection and chest infection and bacterial lung infection - only 25 percent of lower lung working. Lot of the time its trying to convince people how painful my back is, originally in hospital they just gave me paracetamol which never touched the pain, I was then given a mixture of codeine and something else which never lasted and also locked up the joints in my hands. Last time I was in hospital Id used up the painkillers by 2am and no doctor available until 8am so was crying with the pain. A ~German doctor came to my own practice and shed worked with a Chinese doctor who did acupuncture and it was a case of trying anything to ease the pain. I was amazed. - problem with specialists is they see you as a number not a person and its got quite sharp returns with some of the specialists. I asked specialist how he woul;d control infection if they had to operate and he said "we would be in a bit of a mess" - not very re-assuring. I used to grow and show roses - was English champion 2 years on the trot, but struggle round my garden now so its been a big blow. This one simple test - the bone marrow extraction - has caused so much mayhem and suffering. Many thanks for posting up on the USA/Canada site, its very good of you to take all that trouble, I once asked the specialist could they try some time of medicine over the platelets and they said it was experimental and it may be that Id have to go on a list - unfortunately I dont seem to sit into the neat little boxes they want me to sit in! I had a bad reaction to statins and its down to the simple things as well - my skin is all breaking up at the joints between my fingers and can start bleeding, if I go near white spirit or paint its stinging my hands - this seems to have come from the steroids. When they did the bone marrow test there was nothing prepared, she missed with the needle twice and then left the needle in my back while she went looking for specimen jars and the blood was running down my back onto the bed and I was given a wad of swabs to come home with. Thanks once again Linda for replying.
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Reply #11 by linda mccafferty
Posted: January 30, 2009 at 23:56
Dear Graham , gosh all that mayhem from a heavy cold maybe if you did go to the pub & had a couple of whisky's it may have well helped your heavy cold !!! it just goes to show Graham what can happen . it is quite distressing to read what has happened to you , i hope you have plenty of help & support from family & friends ? i know someone that stays near you (preston) who could give you good information regarding staph-epidermidis /osteomyelitis he used to post on here & was very helpful & knowledgeable his email address is derek.butler@mrsaactionuk.net if you drop him an email he will go out his way to help you Graham . there must be better pain relief than paracetamol Graham, i think you will have to be a wee bit more persistent with your GP there is no need for you to suffer like this, hearing that makes me soooooo mad . you,v worked hard & paid your stamp....... your entitled to better medication than paracetamol. i hope you are getting the proper benefits that you should be entitled to as well to help out now that you can no longer work . it saddens me to read you were English champion 2 years in a row for your roses & now this , we will just have to do our best with information & support for you to get you back attending to those roses in your garden Graham .
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Re: steph-epidermidis
Reply #12 by ladyk
Posted: January 31, 2009 at 15:36
Graham –

Hello. I’m ladyk from the USA/Canada MRSA Discussion Forum, and I’d be happy to help you as much as I can. I’ve read your posts and thought we could work our way forward, beginning with a bit of bacteria background. Know your opponent, so to speak.

Staph epidermidis - is a normal microbial inhabitant of human skin and mucosal surfaces but may spread to the blood through breaks in mucosal and skin integrity. This bacterium is an opportunistic pathogen.

The website highlighted below (click drop down menu “medical news” category, bottom – left) has a section on Gram staining. This will help you understand the nature of the bacteria you are afflicted with. There is a volume of interesting information if you follow the link on the bottom beside ladybug. http://webpages.charter.net/mrsa.america_beyond/index.html

We know Staphylococcus epidermidis is a gram-positive and coagulase-negative staphylococci.

Staphylococci can be differentiated from other aerobic gram positive cocci by a positive catalase test. The test is preformed by adding bacterial cells from a colony to a drop of 3% hydrogen peroxide. The appearance of bubbles indicates the enzyme catalase, while ‘catalase negative’ bacteria give no reaction. This is an identifying factor.

Coagulase-negative staphylococci that are resistant to multiple treatments such as Staphylococcus epidermidis may be the cause of infection during bone marrow transplants. (This makes logical sense due to invasive procedure. But I found it interesting because it reveals a clue as to where you could connect in search of top treatments around the world.)

I’m assuming you currently have no foreign bodies within you, for example prosthetic implants, hardware (plastic or otherwise) screws, etc. and your infection was cultured staph epidermidis from wound site due to invasive method in which bone marrow samples are obtained… yes? I can understand the ‘ouch factor’ having had two spinals in my lifetime – a childbirth plus~.

Sorry, I’m not a fan of acupuncture - my only reason for this opinion is the introduction of surface bacteria by crossing protective skin tissue barrier, potentially inserting surface bacteria deeper “into” system. I appreciate the expression though.

con’t
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Reply #13 by ladyk
Posted: January 31, 2009 at 15:40

MICROBIOLOGY — There are 31 species currently recognized in the genus staphylococcus, which are members of the Micrococcaceae family. Staphylococci are aerobic and facultatively anaerobic gram-positive cocci that have a tendency to form irregular clusters, produce catalase, are not motile, and do not form spores. Staphylococcus aureus and S. intermedius are the only coagulase-positive staphylococcal species.

Although at least 18 species have been isolated from human skin, Staphylococcus epidermidis accounts for more than half of resident staphylococci with extensive distribution over the body surface. In terms of clinical isolates, S. epidermidis is clearly predominant, comprising more than 75 percent of coagulase-negative staphylococci in clinical specimens; this is perhaps due to its sheer numbers on the skin surface, although it may possess virulence determinants that other coagulase-negative staphylococci lack. Other clinically significant species include S. saprophyticus that causes urinary tract infections in young adult women, while S. hominis, S. haemolyticus, S. warneri, and S. simulans have been more rarely isolated as pathogens. S. lugdunensis has increasingly been recognized as a cause of invasive infections that include endocarditis, osteomyelitis, and sepsis.

Two antibiotics, Daptomycin/Cubicin and Tigecycline/Tygacil have shown effective towards gram-positive bacteria and staphylococci that are resistant to methicillin. A current study compares the effectiveness of Daptomycin and Tigecycline to Vancomycin and Fosfomycin/Monurol towards coagulase-negative staphylococci from infected bone marrow transpant patients. The minimal inhibitory concentrations (MIC) from in vitro susceptibility testing were used in comparison to determine the effectiveness of the antibiotics. The results show that all the staphylococci were susceptible by the new antibiotics and Vancomycin. Vancomycin is still used during bone marrow transplants.

I’m working my way through your posts with Linda.

Hope this information helps you Graham.

ladyk






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Re: steph-epidermidis
Reply #14 by ladyk
Posted: January 31, 2009 at 16:53
Graham -

I believe in is important to work on rebuilding your immune system.

I would suggest holding off on any invasive procedures/surgeries until you have this situation under control, otherwise you are opening the door to further complications.

You have mentioned diabetes which is a compromising factor in itself, one which I share with you. Often diabetes is found while physicians are performing diagnostic testing, where otherwise this condition would not be found until more profound symptoms arise. The connection is… undetermined diabetes compromises the immune system leaving an open door for invading bacteria. In my case physicians attempted to draw conclusion diabetes was the predominate factor for cycling MRSA outbreaks, although even with borderline diabetes under complete control where test results depicted perfect alignment with one who is not diabetic, this did not change cycling MRSA outbreaks.

Additionally you are dealing with an aggressive pathogenic (disease causing) bacteria, which further compromises the immune system. On top of these two factors is the issue of antibiotic therapy which further compromises the immune system. Antibiotic therapy additionally compromises our immune system by striping both ‘good’ and ‘bad’ bacteria from our bodies. Due to the aggressive nature of staph bacteria, which is known to capitalize on the reduction of ‘good’ and necessary bacteria creating ‘bad’ bacteria overload further compromising us.

Point – your immune system has taken blow after blow. Here rests a major problem that must be addressed.

Our immune system is designed to protect us from system invaders. When it is compromised it is unable to perform its preprogrammed biological job of killing them, and we as host end up with medical maladies to deal with.

Please feel free to come to USA/Canada forum to read posts. I’d be interested in discussing with you how immune support brought me out of my death bed and saved my life.

Best wishes,
ladyk
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Reply #15 by linda mccafferty
Posted: January 31, 2009 at 21:56
Thanks ladyk .

I agree with ladyk Graham on building your immune system up , you will learn a great deal about this on the USA/Canada site i often look in for tips at this site . i would keep the acupuncture up Graham as it can stimulate the immune response , reducing inflammation , pain , swelling & fever . other alternative treatments like massage for instance should be avoided because it could spread infection . but i think getting a vitamin regime up & going Graham would be a good thing .
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Re: steph-epidermidis
Reply #16 by Nancy R
Posted: February 2, 2009 at 03:21
Another thing that stood out was the use of steroids to suppress the bodies immune system. Under the circumstances, that may have contributed to the over growth of bacteria that are causing problems today. It's such a crap shoot! You can't win for losing!

For the record, I was successfully treated for HA MRSA with both Daptomycin (Cubicin) and Bactrin. It worked when nothing else did. I don't know if its available in the UK. Apparently, when both are combined, it increases the efficacy of either.

Graham, I'm praying for you. You have somehow managed to hold on to you sense of humor and I believe that's ESSENTIAL for survival.

hugs,

Nancy
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Re: steph-epidermidis
Reply #17 by graham woods
Posted: February 2, 2009 at 20:27
Many thanks for your reply Nancy R please could you tell me how long it took for you to get right.Hope you dont mind me asking.

Graham
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Re: steph-epidermidis
Reply #18 by graham woods
Posted: February 2, 2009 at 20:37
Dear Linda Mccafferty - many thanks for your help. one thing that has stood out and that was mentioned by a young German doctor who suggested the acupuncture was the info on immune systems, what part of the country do you live in if you dont mind me asking? I am at present looking for a second opinion - when I tried before the hospital wouldnt refer me and I was told I need a referral, we are also in the process of seeking legal advice - its not really an avenue I wanted to go down as I dont feel well enough but you can never get straight answers and Im convinced things werent done right. I have never felt old but over these last 12 months I think Ive aged ten years. Thanks for listening. Best wishes, Graham
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Reply #19 by Nancy R
Posted: February 2, 2009 at 22:09
Graham:

First of all, my HA MRSA was acquired during a hip replacement. Ultimately, the prosthetic hip had to be removed and an embedded spacer set in place for 10 weeks. I did two full rounds of Daptomycin through a PICC line and oral Bactrin. I'm thinking that was somewhere near 2 months on the Daptomycin and about the same on the Bactrin.

Zyvox was also tried and it pretty much destroyed my immune system. It's some nasty stuff. I couldn't take Vancomycin for I had a pre-existing allergic reaction that was very bad. The Daptomycin was my medicine of last resort.

Once the infected artificial hip was removed and the bone cleaned out, I began to improve. On the 10th week, my surgery was schedule to replace the hip again. It worked. I haven't had anymore MRSA infection.

However, you should know this: I still have a lot of joint pain and fatigue. Since my last outbreak was in May or June of 2007, I really think that will be a legacy that I'll just have to live with forever. I seem to have plateaued. I am able to walk with only a slight limp and function almost as well as before the infection.I feel as if I've aged 10 years and that seems to be another fairly common complaint.

However, I lived! And I wasn't supposed to according to the two doctors that ultimately saved my life. They just felt sorry for me. I fooled them;)
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